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I think actual digital data centers can have value for humanity. You need to store things like Wikipedia and Archive.org and other worthwhile sites and services somewhere.
What is shit is the explosion in “data” centers that are really more like gigawatt space heaters that spit out fake images and wrong statements on the side.
You can download the entire Wikipedia and use it locally.
The replies on this thread are absolutely fascinating. How can people be against physical books is a riddle to me.
Right?!
I saw someone post recently that if libraries were invented today they’d never be allowed to exist and I fear that’s correct.
It reminds me of the photo situation, where a glut of photos take up space in a drawer at home and also on the hard drive (if you avoid the cloud), but if “out there” on Google there is some privacy risk or even potential loss. I would hesitate not to have a backup of at least your most important photos. I feel the same way about keeping important work on good USBs, cds and dvds, backed up against data loss or the time when we may have to pay by the hour to use certain chips, or (I see a Dark Mirror episode in this): even pay rent to use your own computer!
Have you ever seen a Cybertruck in the parking lot of the public library? Thought so.
Wtf are you saying?! I have 2 libraries and there arent many people in it. Because reading on tablet or pc is much more simple.
Most people dont want Libraries anymore because technology progressed, its digital now!!!
disagreed if it weren’t for digital media I wouldn’t have learned what I know today
Libraries are a lot more than books though.
I’d be down with publicly funded digital libraries.
Libby is amazing for anyone who hasn’t discovered it yet. It’s likely your library supports it.
Libby + State library card = access to everything it seems
I used to shelve books for a living. I just love being in libraries. I like how quite they are… I love that people there have a purpose and it is noble. I love how it is the number one weapon against fascism. I love libraries. It is no wonder why they are defunding them in the USA. We are a disgusting people. I live in the arm pit of the world.
Bro. IDK about other countries, but In India, Library Owners have changed the definition of Libraries. Now it is basically a room with desks and computers where people come to study with their own study material instead of having their own collection of books, study material (neither physical nor digital). It is a nice place to study but it ain’t a library, it is just a study room for fuck’s sake.
Thats a bit sad.
No it is not. Libraries have been used for >1000 years to gatekeep information and education by kings and churches. Digital media has democratized this.
There really is no point in taking up campus space to store very expensive paper that is hard to find, and can only be accessed by one person at a time.
My university is converting libraries to study spaces. Many modern scientific journals are only digital.
“Libraries providing access to books is gatekeeping because only one person can check one out at a time. Removing books from libraries democratizes information.” –Dumbass
No that’s kinda dumb. A digital copy of the book can serve so many people compared to one physical copy of the book. You have issues with how datacenters are used to exclusively serve capital interests.
Why not have both?
Yes because both sides have their reasons; with both, nothing is lost. Having both may help the book hoarder (I have been there!) find places to give books away and pare down more easily.
Just cause I said I like hotdogs doesn’t mean I don’t like hamburgers
No that’s kinda dumb. Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books, and at the same time those important historical paper records and books need to be stored somewhere public and accessible. Digital records can be altered. Digital books can be altered. Physical is crucial.
Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books
Can you give examples? (Just curious, I haven’t been to one in ages)
Libraries do so much that it’s difficult to express without leaving something out. As Shin said, they provide a “third place,” which is worth reading about if you’re unfamiliar with the concept. Briefly, humans psychologically need places to gather outside of home and work or school. Libraries are one of the few places left in society where a person can simply exist without being charged for the privilege. That alone is incredibly important.
Third places are essential for building real communities, and they cannot simply be replaced by billionaire-owned social media platforms. A real-life bulletin board or community events calendar does not have algorithms, sponsors, or an agenda to push. Libraries give people a physical space to connect with their neighbors and communities directly.
They also offer free classes on everything from filing taxes to gardening, crafts, and technology. They host community groups, events, nonprofits, support groups, makerspaces, and even tool or small appliance lending programs. They allow people to expand their horizons, try new things in a risk-free environment, meet others with shared interests, or simply receive support from their community.
Libraries also provide employment assistance, including resume building, printing services, computer access, and help navigating online applications. They regularly assist older adults trying to navigate phones, government forms, and increasingly hostile dark-pattern-filled websites. On top of that, they provide free internet access to people who either cannot afford reliable internet or do not have quality service at home. The internet, like knowledge itself, is an invaluable resource, and libraries help ensure equal access to both regardless of income.
They are also one of the few places where a person can privately seek information they may be too embarrassed to ask about openly or search for from a personally identifiable device. That privacy matters.
Libraries preserve local archives, history, and community knowledge as well. Keeping those archives public and physically accessible matters because physical records cannot be quietly altered or erased as easily as digital information can.
They are also among the few remaining safe and quiet public spaces for children. Libraries encourage literacy from an early age and provide access to books, ebooks, audiobooks, movies, music, and research databases that would otherwise cost individuals hundreds or thousands of dollars. They give curious people of any age the ability to learn, explore, and broaden their horizons. And despite what some people assume, not all knowledge exists online.
Even looking strictly at economics, libraries save communities money constantly. Instead of every individual person needing to buy every book, tool, printer, subscription, or educational resource themselves, the costs are shared publicly and everyone benefits. The money invested into libraries returns to communities many times over through education, employment assistance, literacy, civic participation, and even public health outcomes.
But beyond all measurable benefits, libraries make communities feel human. They are one of the last institutions built around the idea that access to knowledge should not depend on income. They create places where curiosity, learning, creativity, and simply existing peacefully are treated as worthwhile on their own.
Axing libraries to save a few pennies is not fiscal responsibility. It is a death knell for the community itself.
Ask any grandparent scheduling time with out-of-state grandkids: first find the closest 1-2 libraries to add storytimes, family activities and book/media check-out times for the kids.
The only good data centers are not-for-profit ones.
Maybe, just maybe, AI should do librarian work? Big virtual library where you can just ask a question and instead of answering it AI just points you to category or proposes some specific books?
We’d still need librarians to do the work at the physical libraries, and they’re always going to be the better people to ask. They’re not just people who like books; there is a lot of studying and training to be a librarian - I know 2, and they’re both among the smartest people I know, and definitely the most well-read. I’d go to them for a book-related question before I do anything else.
It’s not as convenient as just typing something up online, but that’s kinda the point. Unchecked pursual of convenience is what got us here - do the tried and true thing that takes a bit more effort, and you’ll be surprised at how much better it works than the convenient option.
The present problems with AI/LLM are already apparent.
Imagine a library where the librarian assembles the book for you based on your reading history, the whims of the rich person that paid for the library chain, and corporation that wants you to stay engaged with their chain of libraries. The book is handed to you and it’s written to not offend you or be objectively critical of the subject you’re interested in (because if you are asked to be critical of your views you might be butthurt and not come back), and to align with your existing views. Interleaved in the pages are ads for you, too. Just like print magazines. The sources for the info could be compiled from anywhere, but who needs those anyway? Nobody looks at them. The Librarian is only as good as its programming, so every once in a while it’s just gonna make shit up and it definitely won’t criticize the methodology of its developers.
Every time someone asks for that same book it’s different, because it’s re-written for each individual based on their data-mined profile, their required adult identity proof to use the service, and their subscription information.
Or you could go to a public library, for free, grab two or three books on the same subject and compare different views thoroughly and see where the authors got their information from.
That’s a future Dark Mirror episode for sure!
It’s 1984, just LLM’s are the right hand of Big Brother.
Are you a bot? You responded clearly without reading what I said.
AI hallucinating content - sure, terrible, big issue.
But AI just helping you find the content you want? You know, lige Google Search was supposed to do before enshittification hit.
Also - go to your local library and check what books/topics aren’t there. Because sure as shit not every library is some infinite magic space with all the books on all the topics.
TF you ask if I’m a bot for? I didn’t try to sell you the New ™️ Gemini ©️AI Patriot’s Library ®️.
Yeah, I over-wote a response. Try this: The librarian now hands you the print books it wants you to see becaue it gets a better ad fee for that one, lets you view them online with more ads, doesn’t tell you about well-reviewed books taking a contrary view or even objectively disproving your question, etc. and you still need to subscribe, provide adult ID, and end up having a digital profile with the service.
Realistic and possible, I believe. Sorry if this is C butting in to an A & B conversation. Fascinating to think of all this though.
Sounds like average doctor in the USA, isn’t it? And it wouldn’t be too far-fetched for a librarian to prefer some books over the others.
If I looked for “well-reviewed books” I probably wouldn’t ask a librarian or generally a single fallible person, rather I would look for a repository of reviews for books.
It’s sounds like just a search engine.
LLM is pretty much just a text predictor, predicting next word, next sentence etc in the conversation.
Being a search engine sounds like an upgrade.
